Jury Hears Of Bizarre Interview With Palisades Fire Suspect

LOS ANGELES, CA — A federal arson investigator told a downtown jury Thursday of a bizarre pre-arrest interview with accused Palisades Fire arsonist Jonathan Rinderknecht in which the suspect expressed hatred of political leaders and predicted "They're gonna be in their castles and spaceships" while "we're all burning."

Testifying on Thursday in downtown Los Angeles, Matt Beals of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives said he eventually convinced Rinderknecht to accompany him and another agent to the Hidden Buddha clearing, the remote area near the Palisades' Summit neighborhood where they suspected the so-called Lachman Fire was set on New Year's Eve 2025, before smoldering underground before bursting into view six days later as the deadly Palisades Fire.

During the disjointed interview, portions of which were played for the jury, Rinderknecht spoke of his resentment of the rich, the pharmaceutical industry, Elon Musk, federal food regulators, "the administration" and "the people that rule the world."

Rinderknecht "was getting more emotional as he talked ... and defeated," Beals said, adding that the defendant "was starting to cry" as he spoke.

"They set up a system that (is) unbalanced," Rinderknecht said on tape. "This is what I disrupted."

Beals told the jury that Rinderknecht was inadvertently referring to the Lachman fire he is accused of having lit.

Federal prosecutors are expected to wrap up their case Thursday afternoon with final witnesses called to testify against Rinderknecht.

A dual French and U.S. citizen, 30-year-old Rinderknecht faces up to 45 years behind bars if found guilty of three arson counts: destruction of property by means of fire, arson affecting property used in interstate commerce, and timber set afire.

The trial in Los Angeles federal court is in its second week.

The defense could start its presentation Monday. The courthouse is closed Friday for the Juneteenth federal holiday.

On Wednesday, a behavioral analyst specializing in arsonists told the jury that a thirst for "societal revenge and excitement" drove Rinderknecht to set what would become the most destructive wildfire in Los Angeles history.

Dr. Kevin Kelm, a former special agent with the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified that "escalating anger" and "social isolation" compelled Rinderknecht to set the Lachman Fire on New Year's Eve 2025, which smoldered underground before bursting into view six days later as the deadly Palisades Fire.

Kelm said alleged arsonists such as Rinderknecht are driven by extreme frustration and anger, often leading to spontaneous acts of fire-setting prompted by a desire to seek revenge against the world.

"These individuals have a lot of things going wrong in their lives," Kelm told the jury. "The opportunity to express revenge can be exciting to some arsonists."

The analyst said that in the period before the fire, Rinderknecht, then working as an Uber driver, was fixated on his problems and under mounting stress involving financial issues, a feeling of having no friends, and frustration at the disparity between the wealthy and others.

"These pressures continue to build and build until they decide to act," Kelm testified.

The defendant's attorney, Steven Haney, maintains that while his client was alone at the remote Hidden Buddha clearing where the Lachman Fire is thought to have begun at around midnight that night, the blaze was actually set by nearby fireworks and the Palisades Fire could have been lit on Jan. 7 by an unknown person.

Under cross examination from Haney on Wednesday, certified fire investigator Derek Hill said the Palisades Fire was a "holdover" fire from the earlier Lachman blaze. The Jan. 1 fire smoldered deep in the root structure under the soil for days before hurricane-force Santa Ana winds caused the underground fire to surface and spread above ground on Jan. 7.

The most destructive wildfire in Los Angeles history, the Palisades Fire burned 23,448 acres and ruined much of the exclusive Pacific Palisades community, destroying about 6,800 structures and killing 12 people.

Hill told jurors that investigators did not believe fireworks caused the Lachman Fire, although he said the possibility was explored early on and quickly dismissed.

Instead, an "incendiary device" — a green Bic lighter — was discovered in Rinderknecht's car and was allegedly used by the defendant to start the smaller fire, Hill said.

In his testimony, Kelm described Rinderknecht's apparent feelings of isolation and powerlessness while his ideas about society "became more extreme" in the lead-up to the fire.

"Other people back away... to the point where they just don't want to associate with him anymore," Kelm said of the defendant.

Rinderknecht became obsessed with "societal issues" and focused on "vigilantism," the analyst said, adding that the suspect frequently used ChatGPT to generate images showing the disparity between corporations and working people to reflect a "dystopian" view of the world.

Last week, one of Rinderknecht's Uber passengers testified that the defendant suggested while driving that politicians he doesn't agree with "deserve to die."

In pretrial hearings, U.S. District Judge Anne Hwang ruled that the defense may not attempt to shift the blame for the Palisades Fire to the L.A. Fire Department, which has been blamed for allegedly failing to completely extinguish the Lachman Fire.

By Fred Shuster, City News Service